My chat with Tim Johanson for The Accidental Producer (plus my Top 10 books)
Alex is the Managing Director of major UK talent agency InterTalent. He represents his clients alongside overseeing the agency's creative strategy, day-to-day operations & acquisitions.
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📚 My chat with Tim Johanson for The Accidental Producer (plus my Top 10 books)
I was introduced to theatre producer Tim Johanson by a mutual friend in 2022. Tim had been commissioned by Bloomsbury Publishing to write a first-timer's guide to getting a play, musical or anything else on stage. A step-by-step handbook.
He wanted to speak to an Agent about the relationship between a Producer and an Agent, something that rarely gets discussed but is paramount to any show happening.
Tim grilled me for over an hour and we had a wide-ranging chat about all aspects.
Earlier this year it was published and I’m very proud to have a whole chapter in the book. I’m even prouder that the book is now available to buy in the National Theatre bookshop. Theatre is my first love (alongside Spurs and Back To The Future, of course) and from an early age I have spent many years watching shows at the National, so to be featured in a book that is sold there is pretty damn cool.
Tim has very kindly allowed me to reveal some of the conversation. The chat may be specific to theatre but what we discuss will apply to any aspect of the entertainment industry.
I hope you enjoy the conversation and if you’re keen to read more and pick up the book, please head here.
📚 To keep the book theme going, at the very end of today’s blog, I will give you my Top 10 book recommendations to get ahead in the entertainment industry.
Let’s go! ⬇️
Tim Johanson: How does the relationship work between an actor and an agent?
Alex Segal: It’s a team. My responsibility is to create opportunities and to protect my client. Nowadays, there’s a huge amount more that goes into the agent/client relationship but ultimately it all comes back to that.
You both need to be on the same page with a strategy. For my clients, it's a one-year, three-year, five-year plan. You can never predict what’s going to happen in this industry. But what you can think about is, is this job going to get me to where I want in one year, three years, five years?
As an agent, can you create possibilities for them? Can you guide them? And are you on the same page as to where you want to get to? And if all of those are a tick, and you have the right relationships, you're going to have a great long-term partnership.
TJ: How does the one-year, three-year, five-year plan work?
AS: It’s about agreeing short and long term goals from the outset. Coming back to the basics of it, just like in producing, there's no rules. But my belief, the way I've been taught and the way that I work, is that there are three reasons to do a job.
Number one is to actually enjoy it. People forget that, but it’s important to actually have a good time. We're in one of the best industries in the world, enjoy what you do.
Number two, will you get paid? And will you get paid well. That helps, right? That’s a key part of my job.
Number three, and maybe the most important, will this job get us the next job?
TJ: There is an old quote I can’t quite remember about film is for fame, TV’s for money and stage is for soul. Does it change any of those answers if someone has profile?
AS: The rule usually is: the bigger you become as an actor, the less you work.
TJ: Really?
AS: Yeah. When you become big, you can't say yes to anything and everything, you can't always do certain things anymore. Because when you get to a certain level, you're expected to be at that level. And being at that level doesn't always, as far as the industry’s concerned, mean it’s right for your image to do smaller projects.
The bigger you become, the fewer jobs you take. And also, the fewer the jobs come, because people think you won't do it. Or people think you're too big for them, or too busy. People just assume that they don't want to work. They’re too busy. They're too rich. Actually, actors do want to work. But they're scared at times about their ‘brand’ or if it gets bad reviews. So, you have this weird thing where you could be a top actor, and do one job a year. And that's a combination of their own internal dilemmas, and part other people thinking they can’t get them.
TJ: That's interesting. So what you're saying is that you should make the offer, you should make the approach?
AS: Yeah. For sure.
TJ: Because they might not be being asked. How much does it make a difference whether you've heard of the person who’s approached you?
AS: This industry is about relationships. As a budding producer, the more people you know, the more people you meet, the easier it is. For young producers, network hard. Go to every show, go to every event, industry, master class, wherever.
I protect my client. The last thing you want is a producer who says they've got money but doesn’t. As an agent, my number one thing is just transparency with the producer. If the show isn't fully funded, just say that, if the client loves it enough they'll still attach to it.
Actually, attaching (someone to a show) is a great way to sort of scratch each other's backs. If you're attached to a play, what you're saying is, my actor will put their name to this.
So when you go to fundraise, or go to a venue, you can say that this person has strong interest. And if it comes off, you have to come to us first. We might not agree a deal, but you have to come to us first. So you scratch my back I'll scratch yours.
TJ: And so, let’s say I’m a new producer, it's essential that I get someone who can sell some tickets. What’s the best way of me legitimising myself to you? Is it about trying to buy you coffee? Is it about trying to get a coffee with your client with no commitment? Is it about sending you an email with the references and last people I worked with?
AS: So here are the stages. If it's a producer that I've not worked with before and doesn't come with big reputation, first things first, I would look at how they've approached. How do they write? Receiving 300 emails a day, you quickly get a sense of what’s serious and what isn’t.
Then I'd have a chat with them on the phone. I say, tell me more. Is it funded? What's your plan? What's your budget? Where are you going? Who is involved? Everything. If I feel like it's real and could be of interest to my client, I’ll always take it to them. Even if I'm not sure they should do it.
If the client is interested. Then we'll do a meeting either with the client or without, depending on how confident I am about this person.
TJ: So, with that in mind, one of the big frustrations I have when I talk to agents is the insistence on dates. It’s the chicken & egg of producing. You can’t get the theatre until you’ve got the star. But you can’t get the star without dates from the theatre.
AS: Dates are key. There's no point working on things when the actors are not free. Agents will always ask for dates because there are so many things going on that might or might not happen. Things are always just hanging in the balance and dates are a step towards something happening. Try and be as far along the process as you can be before needing to come to an agent.
TJ: When you make an offer to a star, you typically need to allow three weeks for someone to read a script. What's going on in that three-week period?
AS: A few things. One, the actor might be busy, and can’t read it straight away, two that agent might not get around to it straight away or three, they’re not sure what to do and need to think about it. But yeah, if you're going to go out to star names, you have to be prepared to sit and wait.
TJ: It’s a problem though when you've got the dates looming…
AS: It's a big problem. But be open. You might say I'm out to a few people in one go.
TJ: Really?
AS: Yeah. I might not be happy with you saying that, but you could say to me, ‘Look, I'm going out to three star names, but I need my person locked in within three weeks’. You can put the pressure on me, no problem. I'll then try and disarm the pressure because I don't want any pressure on me, I want to be putting the pressure back on you… and I might call your bluff if I need more time. Or I’ll just say it’s not likely to happen and see what you do next. Depends on what level of intel I have. I have to be honest, I find it quite fun.
TJ: Okay. I love that. I would never have done that before. How do you feel about people approaching your clients directly?
AS: Not happy. If an actor has an agent and you're approaching that actor directly, at some point you'll get to the agent and you're going to have to start all over again. I feel like it's a waste of time. Just because you've said ‘The actors told me they’re interested’ doesn't mean it's going to happen. Sometimes my clients don’t mean it because people often say things that you want to hear to be nice. And now I'm the one that's going to have to get them out of this. So you're better off approaching the agent directly because it just becomes complex. And, the agent becomes slightly wary if you’re doing that.
TJ: What happens if you know the client or the client is a friend of friends?
AS: I would always say to my clients, ‘tell them to get in touch’. Agents aren’t a necessary evil, they’re necessary. We do an important job and good ones are not there to be difficult, we’re there to make things go smoothly. What I would say to any emerging producer is try and come to an agent as late as possible, have as much in place as you can, be honest, communicative, transparent, and try and build that relationship. Hiring an actor should be, in a weird way, one of the last things you do.
TJ: It's just not always possible.
AS: I know but it helps me. I don't mind attaching my clients to things early but I want to know where you’re going. I want to know which venues are going to suit us because there might be some we don't want to work in. Then maybe it’s about being creative, can they be a producer on it? How can we get them to have the best time?
TJ: That’s my dream.
To read more of our conversation please buy The Accidental Producer here.
📚 My Top 10 picks for what to read to get ahead in entertainment:
✅ Powerhouse: The Untold Story of Hollywood's Creative Artists Agency - The absolute Agent bible. I think I’ve read it 4 times. Learn multiple new things every time. Best I’ve ever read. Think I’ll go read it again.
✅ Who Is Michael Ovitz? - Staying on the theme of CAA… the man who started it all brought out his memoir. Incredible stories.
✅ The Content Trap: A Strategist's Guide to Digital Change - Harvard’s Professor of Strategy, Bharat Anand, new approach to digital transformation. Blew my mind open.
✅ Hits, Flops, and Other Illusions: My Fortysomething Years in Hollywood: Hollywood producer Ed Zwick’s incredible memoir. No holds barred on everyone!
✅ Tinderbox: HBO's Ruthless Pursuit of New Frontiers - Tinderbox is the explosive true story of HBO and how it burst onto the scene. Very long but incredible.
✅ The Agency: William Morris and the Hidden History of Show Business - Traces the eventful history of Hollywood's oldest and most legendary agency.
✅ No Rules Rules: Netflix and the Culture of Reinvention - Reed Hastings shares the secrets that have revolutionised the entertainment and tech industries.
✅ When Hollywood Had a King: The Reign of Lew Wasserman, Who Leveraged Talent into Power and Influence - The story of a man who single-handedly transformed and revolutionised the entertainment industry.
✅ Where Did I Go Right? You're No One in Hollywood Unless Someone Wants You Dead - Bernie Brillstein’s book about his life as an agent in Hollywood.
✅ Showtime – A History of the Broadway Musical Theater - If you love musicals like me then you’ll love this book. By far the best book ever written about Broadway.
📥 I would love to hear from you. Any ideas, thoughts and feedback via alex@intertalentgroup.com are always most welcome.
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See you next time.
Alex